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Immigration Forum / USA Marriage Base / November 2004Folinskyinla on "Can an immigrant own a gun?"
Hi: I did not participate in the string posted earlier by "Kanch" -- and it is now a long string and went off on a tangent. The inquiry was "Hi, I am Aos pending now and bought gun when I had a F1 student visa. Is that legal or should I get rid of it. I bought it from a gun store. Please let me know." There is a quirk in the Immigration & Nationality Act on firearms -- there is NO provision for inadmissability for unlawful possession of firearms. That said, there is, at section 237(a)(2)(C), a provision for the deportation of aliens CONVICTED of a firearms offense. Remember that AOS is often the functional equivalent of applying for an immigrant visa. In Matter of Rainford, 20 I&N Dec. 598 (BIA 1992), the alien was an LPR who had been convicted of a firearms offense. There was no waiver available. He sought adjustment of status through his father. INS objected that even though firearms was not a ground of inadmissability, he should not be adjusted because he would be deportable upon admission. The BIA disagreed and held that a new adjustment wiped out the ground of deportability. In Matter of Gabryelsky, 20 I&N Dec. 750 (BIA 1993), the alien was an LPR who had been convicted of a drug charge AND a firearms charge. The only waiver for the drug charge was available to LPR's returning to an "unrelinguished domicle" of no less than 7 years. The BIA ruled he could apply for BOTH forms of relief. [Its interesting to note that Gabryelsky had been represented by a former Attorney General of the United States]. Rainford is still good law. "The trouble is all inside your head she said to me. The answer is easy if you take it logically. I'd like to help you in your struggle to be free." Paul Simon.  SignatureCertified Specialist Immigration & Nat. Law Cal. Bar Board of Legal Specialization > Hi: > [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > easy if you take it logically. I'd like to help you in your struggle > to be free." Paul Simon. There is more to it, however. And it would depend on, I suppose, what the reason for the unlawful possession was in this case. Before 2002, it was possible for a non-immigrant to lawfully obtain and possess a firearm. So the 1992 case you cite, the finding of unlawful possession was surely not made on the basis of the person's immigration status, but for some other reason - not having an appropriate license, perhaps. http://www.atf.treas.gov/regulations/td471.pdf Incidentally, the only way for a regular Joe non-immigrant to legally obtain and possess a firearm today is if they hold a state-issued hunting license. I have no idea whether any states issue these to non- immigrants. > There is more to it, however. And it would depend on, I suppose, what > the reason for the unlawful possession was in this case. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > hunting license. I have no idea whether any states issue these to non- > immigrants. Hi: I just read the regulation you gave a link to. You are correct that there is "more to it." However, I just gave the immigration consequences of gun ownership in the idea of the question "does this get me deported or prevent me from getting a green card." If an alien is convicted of ANY firearms related offense, he is deportable -- and the firearms offense need not be related to alienage. But if it was, it would be a grounds of deportablity nonetheless. The 1992 Rainford case just might protect the OP based upon the regulation you cite because his AOS just might make his now illegal conduct legal. But he still might be in violation of other firearms regulations. People often tend to forget the "well regulated" language in the Second Amendment and just remember the last clause. SignatureCertified Specialist Immigration & Nat. Law Cal. Bar Board of Legal Specialization > Hi: > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > People often tend to forget the "well regulated" language in the > Second Amendment and just remember the last clause. "Before 2002, it was possible for a non-immigrant to lawfully obtain and possess a firearm" Ok on a side note relating to this, can an immigrant go hunting? Assuming they went through the proper hunter safety courses etc are there any laws that say they cannot possess or use another's gun for the purpose of hunting? Just curious as my father is really excited about showing my husband the ropes. Holly > Just curious as my father is really excited about showing my husband > the ropes. > > Holly I just saw a news report where a man, on his way to hunt deer, was injured when he had an accident while swerving his car to avoid............ a deer....... :) > > Just curious as my father is really excited about showing my husband > > the ropes. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > injured when he had an accident while swerving his car to > avoid............ a deer....... :) AAA and other groups suggest that hitting the deer is the best course of action as most wrecks occur when the driver tries to avoid hitting the animal. It'd be a difficult call to make in that split second. Ian > "Before 2002, it was possible for a non-immigrant to lawfully obtain and > possess a firearm" [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > there any laws that say they cannot possess or use another's gun for the > purpose of hunting? I think discoussin is about non-immigrants. Permamanet residents are allowed (I think in most states) to have fire arms and to have concealed gun permits (where available) AP > In article <35$269082$1854626$1101711350@britishexpats.com>, > member28308 [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > AP Hi: The OP's question was what he should do with the gun he owns. SignatureCertified Specialist Immigration & Nat. Law Cal. Bar Board of Legal Specialization > "Before 2002, it was possible for a non-immigrant to lawfully obtain > and possess a firearm" [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Holly My father always take my better half (UK citizen) shooting at various ranges. I know it's not the same as hunting, but we've never had any problems. I think it's b/c someone with a license is there with the gun and they own it. I wouldn't recommend your father taking the gun out on his own, but I think a little male bonding is harmless! > "Before 2002, it was possible for a non-immigrant to lawfully obtain > and possess a firearm" [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Holly No, there aren't. He can hunt all he wants (from an immigration point of view anyway :D). He should try the crossbow too. Pretty exciting. I've been hunting in tourist status even, BUT i had completed a hunter education course and had a license. All perfectly legal. Elaine :) > Hi: > [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > easy if you take it logically. I'd like to help you in your struggle > to be free." Paul Simon. What I was wondering was whether the 2002 regulation would grandfather existing non-immigrant firearm owners. Perhaps Kanch obtained the firearm before 2002. The regulation does not have any explicit grandfathering provisions, but are there principles on what would be a reasonable amount of time for compliance? What I'm wondering is whether Kanch could avoid resort to Rainford and simply rid himself of the problem by legally disposing of the firearm. Or has the window for doing that passed. > What I was wondering was whether the 2002 regulation would grandfather > existing non-immigrant firearm owners. Perhaps Kanch obtained the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > simply rid himself of the problem by legally disposing of the firearm. > Or has the window for doing that passed. Hi: I didn't say he had to invoke Rainford. Please reread what I wrote. A CONVICTION makes him deportable. However, he is ADJUSTING status which cures the ground of of removability if he had been CONVICTED. This is one of the areas where careful parsing of the statutory language is a good idea. If he is worried about it, he should contact an extremely competent immigration lawyer. This question does not come up all the much and most lawyers would require some time to do some research and THEN they would give an extremely guarded opinion. Note that I am NOT advising Kanch on what to do -- not on this website. SignatureCertified Specialist Immigration & Nat. Law Cal. Bar Board of Legal Specialization > Hi: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Note that I am NOT advising Kanch on what to do -- not on this > website. I understand this. What I am suggesting is that there may be an opportunity for Kanch to avoid all possibility of a conviction and subsequent Rainford scenario in the first place. As it stands he hasn't been convicted, so Rainford is irrelevant, but he could be convicted at any time. If I were him, I'd want to find out if there was a way of wriggling out of this somewhat unsettling state. Perhaps he still has the opportunity to get rid of the firearm and comply with the regulation. > I understand this. What I am suggesting is that there may be an > opportunity for Kanch to avoid all possibility of a conviction and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Perhaps he still has the opportunity to get rid of the firearm and > comply with the regulation. Hi, I bought the gun in 2000. I do not have any arrest or any sort of legal coviction. So it sounds like I am not depotable on this matter. > As it stands he hasn't been convicted, so Rainford is irrelevant, but he > could be convicted at any time. If I were him, I'd want to find out if > there was a way of wriggling out of this somewhat unsettling state. > Perhaps he still has the opportunity to get rid of the firearm and > comply with the regulation. Couldn't he simply transfer ownership to his wife? > > As it stands he hasn't been convicted, so Rainford is irrelevant, > > but he [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Couldn't he simply transfer ownership to his wife? No, non-immigrants can't transfer firearms. It's something of a conundrum. > No, non-immigrants can't transfer firearms. It's something of a > conundrum. Actually, the law (Title 18, part I, Chapter 44, Sec. 922, in effect as of January 7, 2003) only talks about it being illegal for a ''licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer to sell, deliver, or transfer a handgun TO an individual ...('subject to subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26)));'). It says nothing about buying FROM, or anything about one such individual buying from or selling to another individual. I found that interesting. Elaine :) |
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